Legislature(2011 - 2012)CAPITOL 106

03/27/2012 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS


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08:05:31 AM Start
08:05:47 AM HJR38
08:23:43 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HJR 38 US CONST AM: FEDERAL DEBT LIMIT TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHJR 38(STA) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                         March 27, 2012                                                                                         
                           8:05 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bob Lynn, Chair                                                                                                  
Representative Wes Keller, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
Representative Pete Petersen                                                                                                    
Representative Kyle Johansen                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38                                                                                                   
Requesting the  United States Congress  to call  a Constitutional                                                               
Convention to  propose an  amendment to  the Constitution  of the                                                               
United  States   requiring  approval  of  a   majority  of  state                                                               
legislatures to increase the federal debt limit.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHJR 38(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HJR 38                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: US CONST AM: FEDERAL DEBT LIMIT                                                                                    
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KELLER                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
02/20/12       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/20/12       (H)       STA                                                                                                    
03/06/12       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
03/06/12       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/06/12       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/27/12       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND, Staff                                                                                                                
Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     On  behalf  of   Representative  Keller,                                                             
sponsor, described the changes made in Version D of HJR 38.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STUART THOMPSON                                                                                                                 
Meadow Lakes, Alaska                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HJR 38.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:05:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BOB LYNN called the  House State Affairs Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to  order at 8:05  a.m.  Representatives  Keller, Seaton,                                                               
Petersen,  and   Lynn  were  present   at  the  call   to  order.                                                               
Representatives  Gruenberg and  Johansen arrived  as the  meeting                                                               
was in progress.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
             HJR 38-US CONST AM: FEDERAL DEBT LIMIT                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:05:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN  announced that the  only order of business  was HOUSE                                                               
JOINT RESOLUTION  NO. 38, Requesting  the United  States Congress                                                               
to call  a Constitutional Convention  to propose an  amendment to                                                               
the Constitution  of the  United States  requiring approval  of a                                                               
majority  of  state legislatures  to  increase  the federal  debt                                                               
limit.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:06:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  moved to  adopt the  proposed committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)  for  HJR   38,  Version  27-LS1284\D,  Gardner,                                                               
3/22/12, as  a work draft.   There being no objection,  Version D                                                               
was before the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:06:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER, as sponsor of  HJR 38, said he understands                                                               
the concern is  there might be a runaway convention.   He said he                                                               
thinks Version D  addresses this concern on page  1, beginning on                                                               
line 13, to the end of the page.   He said the key is to get two-                                                               
thirds of the  states to have exactly the same  language in their                                                               
legislation.   He  expressed  his  wish to  move  HJR  38 out  of                                                               
committee in order to "get it on the record."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:08:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM  POUND,  Staff,  Representative   Wes  Keller,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  on   behalf  of  Representative   Keller,  sponsor,                                                               
described the changes  made in Version D.  He  said [the original                                                               
bill version]  acknowledges that  requests related to  a balanced                                                               
budget  have  been   made  in  the  past  by   the  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature  to U.S.  Congress,  in 1982  and  1997; however,  an                                                               
expert told  the sponsor  that including  that language  may give                                                               
Congress an excuse  to throw out HJR 38, because  it differs from                                                               
the language in [other states'] resolutions.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:10:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER, in response  to Chair Lynn, indicated that                                                               
if  Version D  is amended  in  any way,  the result  may be  that                                                               
Congress will discard it as not being similar enough.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:10:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG  said   he  does   not  support   "the                                                               
amendment,"  because  he thinks  it  would  "cause havoc  on  the                                                               
federal level" and  would "paralyze the government."   He said it                                                               
would be another  matter if the proposed joint  resolution was "a                                                               
true  balanced budget  amendment," but  he compared  [HJR 38]  to                                                               
federal Proposition 13.  He said  he would not oppose the passage                                                               
of the proposed  legislation out of just the  House State Affairs                                                               
Standing Committee, but would indicate  his recommendation is "do                                                               
not pass."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:12:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON said  he had  anticipated receiving  legal                                                               
opinions  in  the  committee  packet,   but  does  not  see  any.                                                               
Regarding the  previously mentioned  expert, he said  each expert                                                               
has his/her  point of view.   He said that with  the assurance of                                                               
the sponsor that the purpose of  moving HJR 38 simply would be to                                                               
get it  posted on BASIS,  not for it to  be heard by  any further                                                               
committees,  he would  not  oppose moving  it  out of  committee;                                                               
however, he said he would not be "a supporter."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN  asked Representative  Keller if  he would  give those                                                               
assurances.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:15:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER answered  yes.  He confirmed  that the idea                                                               
is to  get the legislation  on the  Bill Action &  Status Inquiry                                                               
System (BASIS).   He  stated that  this is a  huge issue,  and he                                                               
said  he  was  concerned  about the  possibility  of  a  national                                                               
constitutional  convention; however,  he said  the national  debt                                                               
keeps increasing.   He reported that every child  born is between                                                               
fifty and  sixty thousand dollars in  debt.  He said  this has to                                                               
do  with the  definition  of  federalism in  the  context of  the                                                               
balance and sovereignty of the state  with a balance in the power                                                               
of  central government  is part  of the  issue.   He acknowledged                                                               
that there are  many issues and ramifications related  to HJR 38;                                                               
therefore, he stated, "I will not go further."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:16:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG said  it is  unusual that  the proposed                                                               
resolution,  introduced  on 2/20/12,  was  referred  to only  one                                                               
committee.   He  stated his  presumption that  the sponsor  would                                                               
reintroduce  the proposed  legislation  next year,  and he  asked                                                               
Representative  Keller   to  specifically  request  that   it  be                                                               
referred  to the  House Judiciary  Standing Committee  to address                                                               
the issue  of constitutionality.   He said  this pertains  to the                                                               
federal Constitution, but said this  year's Alaska voters will be                                                               
asked whether there should be  a state constitutional convention.                                                               
He said,  "I think that the  answer to the one  question may also                                                               
provide  some legal  research on  whether a  state constitutional                                                               
convention  could   be  called   and  not   open  up   the  whole                                                               
constitution."   He said HJR 38  presents not only the  merits of                                                               
the  measure,  but also  the  procedural  question of  whether  a                                                               
constitutional convention can be limited to enumerated subjects.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER indicated that he would do so.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:19:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STUART THOMPSON read his testimony as follows:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Representative  Keller's HJR  38  calls  for a  limited                                                                    
     constitutional  convention to  address restricting  how                                                                    
     the  national debt  limit is  raised.   It is  not only                                                                    
     appropriate and  confidently written,  but speaks  to a                                                                    
     matter  that  is  a  central   reason  why  America  is                                                                    
     becoming  a has-been  Republic  after  only 250  years.                                                                    
     The   appropriateness  of   state   attention  to   the                                                                    
     financial   betrayal  of   Americans  by   the  federal                                                                    
     government  is  best  explained  by  quoting  Alexander                                                                    
     Hamilton:   ... "This balance between  the national and                                                                    
     state governments  ought to be  dwelt on  with peculiar                                                                    
     attention as it is of  the utmost importance.  It forms                                                                    
     a double security to the  people.  If one encroaches on                                                                    
     their rights,  they will find a  powerful protection in                                                                    
     the other.   Indeed, they  will both be  prevented from                                                                    
     overpassing  their constitutional  limits by  a certain                                                                    
     rival-ship  which will  ever subsist  between them."  -                                                                    
     1788 speech to the New York ratifying convention.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     That  runaway national  debt  is fiduciary  criminality                                                                    
     verging  on treason  is best  explained by  quoting two                                                                    
     U.S. Founding  Fathers:  ... "I  sincerely believe that                                                                    
     banking   establishments   are  more   dangerous   than                                                                    
     standing  armies, and  that the  principle of  spending                                                                    
     money  to  be  paid  by posterity  under  the  name  of                                                                    
     funding is but swindling futurity  on a large scale." -                                                                    
     Thomas  Jefferson,  1816  letter excerpts.    ...  "The                                                                    
     Union:   Who  are  its  real friends?    Not those  who                                                                    
     promote unnecessary  accumulations of  the debt  of the                                                                    
     Union, instead of  the best means of  discharging it as                                                                    
     fast  as possible;  thereby  increasing  the causes  of                                                                    
     corruption in the government, and  the pretexts for new                                                                    
     taxes under  its authority, the former  undermining the                                                                    
     confidence, the  later alienating the affection  of the                                                                    
     people." - James Madison, 1792 public essay excerpts.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     That   a   balanced   budget   and   restricting   debt                                                                    
     accumulation  is the  essence  of government  fiduciary                                                                    
     responsibility has  been known for thousands  of years.                                                                    
     For example,  I quote  a famous  Roman statesman:   ...                                                                    
     "The budget should be balanced;  the treasury should be                                                                    
     refilled; public debt should  be reduced; the arrogance                                                                    
     of officialdom  should be tempered and  controlled; and                                                                    
     the assistance to foreign lands  be curtailed lest Rome                                                                    
     become  bankrupt.   People  must  again  learn to  work                                                                    
     instead of  living on public assistance."  - Cicero, 55                                                                    
     B.C.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Income  greater  than  outgo,   plus  reserves:    This                                                                    
     foundation of  sound economic policy has  been the same                                                                    
     since God  created humanity.  Federal  government being                                                                    
     institutionalized  bribery and  swindling.   Pass  this                                                                    
     resolution.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:23:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN, after ascertaining that there was no one else who                                                                   
wished to testify, closed public testimony.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:23:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHJR 38, Version 27-                                                                     
LS1284\D,  Gardner, 3/22/12,  out  of  committee with  individual                                                               
recommendations and  the accompanying fiscal notes.   There being                                                               
no objection, CSHJR  38(STA) was reported out of  the House State                                                               
Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:23:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
State Affairs Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 8:24                                                                  
a.m.                                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
09CSHJR 38 D 3-22.pdf HSTA 3/27/2012 8:00:00 AM
HJR 38